Eat My Globe

Interview with Eric Adjepong

INTRO MUSIC

Simon Majumdar (“SM”):

Hi everybody. I'm Simon Majumdar the host and writer of Eat My Globe, things you didn't know, you didn't know about food. And on today's very special episode, we are so lucky to have one of my favorite chefs, Eric Adjepong. Now, Eric has recently opened a brand-new restaurant in Washington DC known as Elmina, and I have to say just look at the menu. There are so many dishes I want to eat right now. I particularly like Chofi which are fried turkey tails with mojo onions, Dawadawa aoli – I hope I got that right – Shito and his mum's hot sauce. Oh my godfathers, that just sounds fantastic. So, we'll have to talk about this restaurant a little later on. Eric is also one of the Food Network's brightest new stars. Having worked with him, I can see why people love him on shows like Tournament of Champions and Alex vs America. He is a natural. Not only is he a fantastic chef, but he is also an advocate for public health and has taken the role of ambassador for Save the Children amongst others. And indeed, he has a Master’s of Public Health from the University of Westminster in London, where actually I went to do one of my PGCEs, a postgraduate, at University of Westminster. So, I love that area. Now, he is one of publishing's hottest new cooking talents. Two years ago Eric sent me his wonderful book for children, Sankofa: A Culinary Story of Resilience and Belonging. And today he's going to be talking to us about his latest book, Ghana to the World: Recipes and Stories That Look Forward While Honoring the Past. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my very, very great pleasure to introduce you to the one and only Chef Adjepong. How are you doing?

Eric Adjepong (“EA”):

Oh man, I'm doing well, Simon. Thank you so much, good Sir, for the amazing intro. And I echo it. You are just as charming and brilliant, and someone that I really, really enjoy working with, especially during our times at Food Network and beyond. So, excited to talk to you about this book and everything else that's going on in my world. So, cheers. Thank you so much.

SM:

What I want to do at the beginning is to just ask you because you've got so much going on. I mean, so much. What else you have in the works? Obviously don't give anything away, but what else you have in the works and then we'll talk about your fantastic book. It is fantastic.

And what I'm doing is I want everyone who's listened to this – and we get quite a few listeners – I want them to go out and buy this because it is fantastic. But anyway, tell us what you're doing now.

EA:

I’m not sleeping much. I gotta be honest.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

[Laughter]

I am, I, I'm living the dream. I really am. I'm, I'm in my, a really memorable moment in my life where the restaurant is a little bit over a month old. The book has now been released, and that has been keeping me extremely busy. . .

SM:

Yep, I can see.

EA:

. . . in addition to hosting a couple of, a couple of shows on Food Network now and, and, you know, being a dad.

SM:

Which shows are those?

EA:

So yeah, Alex vs America has now been heading into its fifth season and then Wildcard Kitchen heading into its third season.

SM:

Wow.

EA:

It's a really. . . a pleasure and an honor. You know, I grew up watching cooking shows and talent as a younger chef and a young person. So, it's very humbling to have this sort of position now and to think that I'm actually maybe encouraging or maybe inspiring someone, you know, that I was, like I was inspired when I was younger. It's a pretty sort of full circle humbling moment. But yeah, it's a lot. I'm also a father, you know, and keeping me, my daughter keeping me busy as well. So, a lot of hats. Sometimes I wear a couple of hats at the same time, but you know, I'm enjoying everything about it.

SM:

Let's talk about your phenomenal book. How did it come about?

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

And I know that you worked with someone to help you co-author it as well, didn't you?

EA:

Correct.

SM:

So I'd love if you mentioned them because I think they don't often get the mentions that they deserve.

EA:

Not for me, Simon. I. . . . Listen, this book would not be anywhere close to being published or as, you know, full and thoughtful as it is, if it wasn't for, my co-author, Korsha Wilson, who was a phenomenal writer, who came along this journey with me, really young and early into this, into this project, actually at, at, at a [indecipherable]. I met Korsha via the New York Times. She wrote an article on me in 2018. . .

SM:

Oh wow.

EA:

. . . yeah, 2018, after I did Top Chef. And she wrote the article and funny enough, I met her maybe a few months later. The idea of the book was sort of sparked maybe around that time, but I bumped into Korsha in Philadelphia and just sort of had this random urge to just ask her like, hey, you know, you did such a great job and you've helped me with so much with this one article. Would you be interested or have you actually even written or co-authored a book before? And she said, no. And I said, great. I've never written a book. So we're in great company. And she was just so open to the idea and warm to the idea. And this is about, wow, five years ago now, just about, you know, to think about where this book has traveled over two continents, and being able to tell these amazing stories from both the past and some of my more recent stuff and things that I've been inspired by, by chefs like you and other people from the Food Network and beyond. It's truly a culmination of things that have inspired me, but things that I'm also inspired by. And the voice of Korsha Wilson is literally all throughout. I would send voice notes to Korsha and she would write them out in our manuscript. And I'm like, this sounds like me, but it sounds a lot more intelligent. It sounds like more studious. It sounds, you know, more scholarly. And she has a great sort of knack for using these amazing sort of phrases and words, but then also keeping things very concise and getting straight to the point. And I really admire that about her writing. And it's so powerful that way because you're able to sort of give a really full and enriched storytelling and details about moments of where we are, who we're with, what we're doing, the food, the smells, all of that, all of that texture.

SM:

Yep.

EA:

She does a great job of delivering that in the book. And I'm very, very thankful for Korsha and to Korsha for all the amazing work that she's put behind this project.

SM:

I'm so pleased that you gave her a mention because they are sometimes the people who get forgotten when they're writing cookbooks, all kinds of books, but particularly cookbooks. And let's talk about the images as well. . .

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . because they are, and I'm not just saying this, they are stunning because who took those or was it one person or was it, because it's amazing.

EA:

Yeah, it was a committee. It was. . . . I. . . Cheers. Thank you so much. You know, one of the things that I really wanted to sort of hammer home is obviously the recipes and the storytelling, but the photos themselves, you know, it should be coffee book or coffee table material, right? Something that you can pick up. . .

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

. . . and browse through whether you are, you know, legitimately cooking the recipes or if you just want to get a quick browse and, and be inspired by the amazing photos. So I really wanted to get everyday people doing everyday things in Ghana, and I had an amazing photographer by the name of Carlos Tawiah and he was able to capture, you know, mothers and, and, and, children at the market, men at work, you know, the fishermen in the different towns, you know, the, ingredients, it really, the children playing, like it really was a very textured sort of, sneak snapshot of what. . .

SM:

It's just everything about it is stunning.

EA:

Yeah. Cheers, cheers, cheers. Yeah, he did an amazing job. And then, Doaa Elkady was the photographer who did all of our food photography in Brooklyn, New York. So again, spanning two continents, we had an amazing photographer sort of doing the lifestyle aspect and piece of it. And then the more studio sort of shots that we take of the food. And Doaa’s eyes are amazing as well when it comes to detail and highlighting certain ingredients and sort of putting things together. So, it was really a collaborative effort between photographers, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Liberty Fennell, you know, who was the food stylist, and Chef Nana, and Chef Tyrik from New York, who also helped with the production of everything. So, I am so thankful for all of the amazing creatives that helped sort of get this book visually to where it's at.

SM:

Yeah, I'm and as again as someone who was ex in publishing the fact that you mention all of those, I think, is wonderful because they don't usually get mentioned they just don't and so thank you for that. And it is overall with you as the center and all the others around you. It is a stunning book.

So anyone who hasn't seen this book, Ghana to the World: Recipes and Stories That Look Forward While Honoring the Past, please, please, please do go and get it. Have a look at it. If you really like it just buy it because it is a fantastic book.

But let's talk about you. Okay? Because I wanted to go through your thoughts when you're doing this and I, I don't know why this but I was just thinking of. . . you describe your culinary skills of showing instead of telling and is this something in your blood because I was thinking when you said that I was thinking of the griot. I don't know, from West Africa they would go around and they would tell stories and histories and you would kind of tell yours by cooking and they would tell theirs by history. And I don't know if you even thought that, but that's how I thought when I was hearing you tell that.

EA:

Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I think it really is all encompassing, you know, to be in this beautiful world of culinary arts in this industry that encompasses so much, whether it's hospitality, restaurant, you know, catering, so forth, so on. There's an amazing opportunity to story tell as well. You know, you are, when you want to offer a full sort of full in-depth experience, yes, we're providing food, you get to taste it, you get to smell it, but then when you add the storytelling, now you're giving romance, you're giving depth. . .

SM:

Yes, you are.

EA:

. . .you're giving a bunch of other things that I think really sort of captures all of your senses, so to speak. And that's incredible. That's an incredible place to be as a chef and a culinarian. And when you're offering those types of experiences, I think the guest leaves more enriched. So yeah, the food itself speaks for itself, but then, you know, speaking with authority and intelligence to it, talking about the ingredients, talking about sort of the love letters, so to speak, to my mother and my father and the places that I grew up in. I'd be, you know, this book and honestly, me as a chef wouldn't be anywhere near where I would be without those sort of like memories to take back from. So, it's all sort of wrapped into one nestled sort of package, you know, the food and the storytelling and, and everything else really goes hand in hand.

SM:

Yeah, I love that. And when you talk about it, I think that, that kind of griot thing comes from you.

EA:

Sure.

SM:

What I also loved is everyone, I think, certainly everyone in the cooking business will have a tale of their mothers or their aunties or their, you know, wherever, and even their fathers, you know, teaching them the roles of cooking. And I have one when my mother was actually a Welsh woman, but my father taught her how to cook Bengali food.And I'd always stand and but in the day she was cooking, they didn't have any ingredients so she'd do a fish stick curry. . .

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . and feed it to him. And so, tell us about your own experiences and your mother Abena.

EA:

Yep, yep, exactly. Yeah. It's, wow, what a woman, what a lady. I'm so thoroughly impressed by her story, coming and being born and raised in Ghana and Kumasi, and coming to the States at a relatively young age. You know, she, she. . . . Her love language is food, how she communicates and how she shows love and expresses love is through food. My mom will make sure that you are fed, you know, before you leave the house.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

And then that's the way to make sure, that's her way to make sure that, you your love done. So I would watch her. I would watch her sort of have that, those moments in the kitchen. And that was her domain. And she brought to me a superpower to the house, bringing everybody together, you know, at one specific time so we can have dinner whether it's in the family, whether it's friends from the neighborhood, everyone really enjoyed my mom and the hospitality that she gave. So, I, again, just so lucky to fall in this industry because I think I had a really great teacher really young and early and she probably doesn't realize how much of an impact her hospitality and sort of picking up on, you know, the warmth and, you know, the provision that she offered via her food. That was really important to me. So, I'd be, you know, more than remiss if I didn't mention her and my love for her, of course. Like you mentioned, everyone has sort of those origin stories with either grandma or mom or some sort of matriarchal or patriarchal sort of figure in their life. But for me specifically, my mother was a pillar when it comes to food, when it comes to West African food specifically. But then also, you know, she would try her hand at a lot of like American dishes, you know, now that she has an American son, she's, you know, she's given birth to a son in America, she would make sure that like, I didn't feel left out with, you some of the dishes that my friends were eating in the neighborhood and stuff like that. So, I really just admire all of what she does and still to this day, a fantastic cook who still gives that same energy to the food that she cooks and she offers. So it's funny, she came down to help me with me and my daughter, maybe a few weeks ago, about a month ago actually. And for whatever reason, Simon, she didn't think that I cooked anything. So she brought some Jollof rice to the house.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

She made it from her home in New York and she brought it to me in DC, and then, you know what, I did actually make Jollof rice myself. So we had like a Jollof off, you know, her Jollof versus my Jollof.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

[Laughter]

And my daughter was the, the taste tester. We set it up like Chopped, you know, and there was a whole sort of blind tasting.

SM:

Aww.

EA:

And my daughter picked my, my mom, my daughter picked her, picked grandma's and, you know, I happily conceded to that. That was fine with me, but it was a cool moment to see sort of three generations, having, you know, cooked that same meal and it's really great to see my daughter now embracing the culture, embracing the meals. And I love the relationship between food specifically that my now daughter has with my mom, which is pretty cool.

SM:

Aww, yeah, it's that must be I mean both of my parents I'm obviously a lot older than you but both of my parents passed away and I'm missing that thing. When I would go home my mother would bake or she'd do an Indian dish even though she was Welsh. My father was Indian. And if she didn't have anything like that to serve us she thought she was doing something wrong and I'd come up from London. . .

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . and she'd always have a whole table filled with food. So, it's that kind of thing.

EA:

I love that.

SM:

And because you still have her, you have to, what's the word? You have to be conscious of her while she's around.

EA:

Absolutely, absolutely. Cherish every moment. You know, even, I mean, she's still a mom, so she still has those sort of mommy qualities where she's making sure that everything is her way. And I get that. But no, you're absolutely right. Being conscious and cherishing every single moment is something I try to do very consciously myself.

SM:

That’s great. Now I do notice again in your book you use two symbols. There's one to say this is a traditional dish and this is a modern dish. I don't know. . . . The modern dish using the Sankofa, is that right?

EA:

Mm hmm. Correct.

SM:

And then the second dish and I can't be sure of how to pronounce this, Nea Onnim?

EA:

Yeah, well, yep. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

SM:

So could you tell us how these come about and why you wanted to use those particular?

EA:

Definitely, definitely. One, this is an idea from Korsha Wilson, the amazing co-author behind the book. But what we did when we sort of took a 30,000 foot view of the dishes, we noticed that there was a stark separation between traditional recipes, things that have really haven't been touched or changed or altered, things that if my great great grandparents were to cook it, would look very, very similar to the same process and the ingredients used. And then we had some of the things that I've been more inspired by in my career, obviously a little bit more recent or thereafter. So, things that I've picked up, you know, in my different restaurants that I've worked in or in Top Chef or, you know, working with the amazing chefs that we work with on Food Network as well.

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

So we really wanted to highlight the sort of moving forward while honoring the past, the sort of subtext of the book.

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

And it's a moment to sort of signify like, hey, when you're cooking this recipe, this is the way that like our ancestors cooked it, you know? And if you're cooking this recipe, this is more of like an inspiration or, you know, taking ingredients or the techniques and from, you know, indigenous ingredients and techniques rather, and how I sort of see my mind at this age, at 2023, 2024, 2025 and beyond, what I really think this food can look like and push it forward. So, I love this. This is sort of the first time I've ever seen two symbols sort of signifying traditional versus more modern and current recipes in a cookbook. And I'm really happy and proud to do that. It took time, especially when, and I'm sure you can attest to this as well, a lot of the recipes are orally sort of transcribed, right?

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

You, you're watching your parents or you're watching someone who cooks and they're telling you, you know, this is how you do it. This is how you make this dish. So, it was really important for me to sort of put those oral recipes and transcribe them into something that we can actually have tangibly now in the book. Because God forbid, you know, my mom or my aunt, whenever it's time for them to pass, you know, God forbid, those stories and those recipes pass with them. And how do I preserve? How do I make sure that we can sort of continue on the great legacy of food and dishes, you know, and I can enjoy them with my daughter and my daughter can enjoy them with her family, you know, whenever she's having.

SM:

I still remember one of my aunties, we called her auntie even though she was my god. . .

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . my grandmother, grandmother's age. She always said, ectu, which was a tiny bit of. Well, her a tiny bit of. . .

EA:

Right.

SM:

. . . and my a tiny bit of were terribly different because my hands are big and fat. . .

EA:

Exactly.

SM:

. . . and hers were tiny and so I was going, what is that? She goes, ectu. It's Bengali for a little thing, a little bit.

EA:

Right.

SM:

And I was going, what does that mean?

EA:

[Laughter]

SM:

So that's what you're trying to find out now.

EA:

Yes, yeah, yeah. You know the joke is, you, you stop seasoning until the ancestors tell you, but like, when do the ancestors tell you?

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

Like, how much is that exactly? You know?

[Laughter]

SM:

That's fantastic.

So, tell me what they, what they mean though – Sankofa and Nea Onnim.

EA:

So Sankofa is really a symbol. They're both from the Ashanti tribe in Ghana. And they both sort of, the symbols themselves mean so many things. There's so many different symbols. But Sankofa specifically, it means to move forward while honoring the past. It's the title of my children's book.

SM:

Right.

EA:

It's one that really resonates with me as well. The actual symbol is a bird looking behind but moving forward. And it really is one that I think it means so much to me as a chef and as someone who really appreciates culinary arts because I'd be remiss if I didn't know what the dishes before me were like, I didn't understand and didn't respect the dishes, you know, that were made before me. And then, Nea Onnim is one really it means when he who does not learn, he gets to know. It's a symbol of knowledge, it's of lifelong education.

SM:

Okay.

EA:

A continued quest of knowledge. So, we signify the quest of knowledge really with the older or updated versions rather, and then the Sankofa means, in the book at least, those are signified by the more traditional recipes.

SM:

And there's another phrase in there, which I'm not going to pronounce. I'm going to ask you to pronounce it. But, se wo, where? It was S E W O W E R E. You know this.

EA:

Se wo were. Correct. Absolutely.

SM:

So what are you trying to say in this, and where does that appear from?

EA:

Again, really, it's sayings that means so much to me. When you're talking about taking the spirit of the dishes and doing things earnestly and doing things as best as possible and really putting your best foot forward, that's where the symbol and the sorry, the phrase comes from. And really, that was the sort of theme of the book. This is a five-year project. And, you know, we put, man, I can't even tell you how many times I wanted to quit because it was hard, but you almost push through it and you persevere. And then, you know, you hopefully get a book that, that sort of captures the depth of all the years that's in the time that's been put into this. So, it's. . . . Everything in this book is very intentional. And I think it sort of all comes together in that way.

SM:

Yeah, that's something that I wanted to find. I've written three books and they were all memoirs of where I was going in the world and what I was doing and they were all very intentional.

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

That's exactly what I have. And in fact, I even mentioned that, well, we'll get to that later, but when I saw you for the first time cooking in Tournament of Champions and I used that word.

Okay, so tell us about some of the dishes that were mentioned. I've put a few down here. But you can, you may have got them in front of you, you may not. So, let's talk about Fonio.

EA:

Yeah, Fonio, an indigenous grain to West Africa. It’s. . . . I think of it as in the family of quinoa or millet. Very, very small grain, but so hearty and nutritionally dense. Chef Pierre Thiam is one chef from the region, from Senegal specifically, who has championed this amazing superfood, and, you know, has used it in so many different ingredients, sorry, so many different recipes, including making a Fonio beer, which I think is pretty cool. . .

SM:

Wow.

EA:

. . . using the sort of, yeah, the yeast from it and creating hops and getting this really beautiful sort of slightly malted beer. And it's a great, great ingredient. And again, one that is indigenous to West Africa. So very excited to sort of have that throughout the book and different versions, and one ingredient that I love using here in the restaurant as well.

SM:

And where do you. . .  Where can you get it? Because I've been to Senegal and I've had this dish and that was just, I mean, I loved Senegal. I really did. And I had fantastic, had the Thieboudienne, the rice dish with scotch bonnet and the fish. That was fantastic. So where can you get this dish, this grain in the US right now?

EA:

You know what, if you check local, oh man, it's so amazing, even just through the five years of creating this book and initially sort of not worried, but it was in the back of my mind, like how is the everyday person going to get these ingredients. . .

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

. . . if they really want to cook authentically? And then even within the past five years, it's amazing to see the demand of these ingredients and sort of the, the push to have these ingredients in your everyday grocers. So Whole Foods now carries Fonio, which is amazing to me.

SM:

Oh, okay.

EA:

You can obviously get it online. Amazon is an incredible source for that as well. So now you're starting to see it pop up. And in many ways, in many ways, let's say South Af. . . South American cuisine, I think maybe 10, 15 years ago was sort of the new trendy wave and push. And now you see ingredients like aji amarillo almost everywhere, you know, it's really cool. So, I love now walking through the aisles of the international markets, no matter what the grocer is and seeing, you know, things like Fonio pop up, which is really nice.

SM:

Yeah, which is very interesting for me and I wanted to ask where that because I was I'm tempted to go and cook with it to be honest.

Let's talk about some of the others. Okay, your mother's hot pepper sauce. . .

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . and I know you give the recipe for it. But I'd love you to describe it to our listeners. It's just what it is because that looks really good.

EA:

Oh man, I got spoonfuls of that hot sauce in the restaurant and we just, you put it on everything. Pizza. You put it on, you know, any other day. It's, it's delicious. It's essentially a pickled hot sauce. My mom would do a great job of combining tomatoes and bell peppers and a little bit of either scotch bonnet or habanero, whatever you have available. And it's a, it's a sauce that you know, she adds a little bit of vinegar to. I, I sort of took the umbrage and did my best to really enhance it. I think I did a decent job of it. It's one that starts off sweet sour and then maybe like two or three seconds later, it starts to get that heat. But it's not a very like a blasting heat. It's a very subtle heat. And it's absolutely delicious. So, I love the combination of that pickling liquid again, adding in the pickling liquid itself is salt and sugar based. So again, that sweet sour comes in. And then the amazing ingredients. One thing I love about a habanero pepper specifically is one, yes, obviously it brings heat, but there's amazing floral note to it as well. There's a lot of fruity notes to it that really get highlighted in that hot sauce. So, it's a great sort of all around hot sauce that we have in the book. And I encourage folks to just make a good amount of it. It lasts for a very long time in your refrigerator and you'll start to notice you're throwing that on everything.

SM:

[Laughter]

Do you use habanero or do you use scotch bonnet? Because scotch bonnet is a lot stronger even than habanero, isn't it?

EA:

A lot stronger. Correct. Yeah, correct. So, I like to use habaneros for the hot pepper sauce. But in a pinch, you know, you can sort of tailor the scotch bonnet, you know, maybe not add as much to it. You're still going to get those nice floral notes as well. But maybe scale back a little bit on that scotch bonnet if you have that in house. But, yeah, whatever you're using, scotch bonnet, habanero, you're going to get a depth of heat that's again, very subtle and really not the, it's a background singer, if that makes sense, rather than being the forefront of the sauce.

SM:

And let's go through a few of them that I've got down here. Tell me about Bofrot because I've not tried that before.

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

And yet you're giving it a claim that it's related to some dishes in New Orleans or to one of the dishes in New Orleans. So, I want you, I'd love you to describe that for me.

EA:

One of my favorites. I. . . . It's a running joke in my family, one that I'll probably never hear the end of, but when I was living with my grandparents in Ghana, I would yell every morning to the street vendors, Bofrot, Bofrot, early morning in my diapers to go ahead and grab one of these amazing sort of dishes. It's fried dough, essentially. It's, I try to, to folks who've made never had it liken it to a beignet. . .

SM:

Okay.

EA:

. . . you know, that you said that you get in New Orleans. So it's a fried dough.

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

What makes it special is the use of like these warm spices. So you might have a version of a Bofrot with nutmeg or maybe some clove or cinnamon. . .

SM:

Ooh.

EA:

. . . or maybe a combination of all three. And it's really, really great. Bofrot, it's called in Ghana. You might hear puff puff in other parts of West Africa. But really it's a fried dough, yeasted. It's a good yeast amount as well, or you could use base rather. So, it has a little bit of malted back note to it. I think it's absolutely delicious. We sort of enhance it. Well not enhance it, really just take it to another level with a little bit of cinnamon sugar. We use like a malted ice cream gelato to pair with it. And it's fantastic. Yeah, it's fantastic.

SM:

Oh gosh, I’m getting so. . . . I have to say whenever I do these interviews with chefs I do them with scholars and all kinds of people but whenever I do them with chefs I had Alex Guarnaschelli and she was just talking about everything they were cooking and I was just getting so hungry and it's only. . .

EA:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . 7.40 in the morning here.

EA:

That sounds good.

SM:

That sounds good. Oh. So, that's one, and then the other. . . . Well there’s a couple more. Can you tell what Kelewele is that?

EA:

Ooh, yes.

SM:

Is that the right pronunciation again?

EA:

You said it better than me. Kelewele is a delicious like street food snack of spiced sweet plantains and roasted peanuts. Very straight to the point. The sweet plantains are ripe, you got to get them when the skin is almost really dark, or black rather. And we take a sort of combination of wet and dry seasonings. The wet is a blended, a blend of ginger and garlic, maybe a little bit of onion in there. And then we add these beautiful spices of cumin, coriander, cayenne, and that sort of combination of those two, wet and dry. We soak the, or marinade rather, the sweet plantains in that for, you know, a full day is gonna get you a really robust flavor, but it can go as short as maybe two hours, and they get just a really quick hot oil bath. You fry them and then you just take some toasted roasted peanuts right on top.

SM:

Oh, oh, oh.

EA:

I mean, just yeah, you can, you can go to town with that. It's just the perfect bar snack food, you know, with the, with a nice pint or, you know, you know, just something that you can share between, you know, two fellows or a friend. And it's gone before you know it.

SM:

Aw. Now when I listen to this, I listen to you talking about the spices. And in West Africa, that’s, they came from other parts of the, the territories where the colonizers went.

EA:

Absolutely.

SM:

So, when do you think they came into Africa or was that from the beginning of enslavement and they took people out and then brought people in?

EA:

It's a little bit of a both, honestly. So, as you mentioned, the region itself and the country specifically was under colonial rule from the British.

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

So, you'll see a lot of curry, a lot of curry come from that area.

SM:

Yep.

EA:

But then also Portuguese has a huge influence. So, the peri-peri pepper. . .

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

. . . that is originated from Portugal has made its way to West Africa. And we have amazing dishes with peri-peri and sort of one of the, the backbones to a lot of the dishes as far as heat that we get as well. We. . . .

SM:

Well, I was going to ask you. . .

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . about the peri-peri rub because that to me when I read it was something that I'd seen in South Africa. . .

EA:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . because they have Nando's. . .

EA:

It's correct.

SM:

. . . thing that in the UK everyone goes, they go out for a cheeky Nando's.

EA:

Nando’s, yeah.

SM:

That's the, let's say every. . . . But I thought that was, yeah, I thought that was in South Africa and then it got, you know, it got shipped to, because everyone knew peri-peri. . .

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . from South Africa. But how did it get to West Africa?

EA:

Yeah, exactly that. So, during the 17th century, the Portuguese made their way over down from Europe over to West Africa, hitting spaces like Sierra Leone and Ghana, but then also ultimately ending in parts of South Africa, Mozambique included as well. So, you'll have almost the same pepper you'll see both in the lower region of Europe hitting West Africa and then hitting the southern part of Africa itself. So, we'll have different versions to your point of that classic Nando's peri-peri sort of sauce and rub in three different regions of the world, giving, you know, a really cool sort of eclectic mix because now you're pairing other ingredients that are indigenous to that part of the world with that pepper. And now you're getting a very, a profile of heat that's familiar, but then also a little bit different from the use of different cilantros and other, you know, ingredients like herbs and spices and stuff like that. So, it's really cool to see how food has sort of migrated, even though it's told through maybe the most, not fortunate story but I think there's some tasty sort of ramifications from it as well. And we've been able to use that pepper in so many amazing ways, the same way that South Africa and parts of Mozambique have been able to do as well.

SM:

Yeah, I know that I went from South Africa, I went through Zimbabwe, and then I went to Mozambique and went up and everywhere I went I had peri-peri but it was slightly different.

EA:

Correct. Exactly.

SM:

And that was interesting but I didn't know that it had gone. You know, when I was in Senegal I don't think I had any but I had a lot of their dishes. The Yassa chicken and all of those. . .

EA:

Yes.

SM:

. . . were very famous dishes but I didn't have that. But one more. Because this is something that I love the sound of, I'd love you to describe it. The Fante Fante fish stew?

EA:

Ooh, yes.

SM:

Or did I get that wrong?

EA:

You are an honorary Ghanaian today. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

. . . because you're hitting all the notes when it comes to the pronunciations. Yeah, Fante Fante Fish Stew is, it's a, oh man, I love this stew. One that we serve here at the restaurant as well. It's a, it's a fisherman's stew. Kind of think of like a bouillabaisse.

SM:

Okay.

EA:

The story is all the cuts that, the price cuts rather, that the fisherman wasn't able to sell. They use it and sort of like put it all together in a stew that's tomato based, maybe a little bit of palm oil, crayfish powder. So, it has a bunch of just umami notes. . .

SM:

Oooh.

EA:

. . . all throughout. It's absolutely delicious.

SM:

I'm getting so hungry.

EA:

Oh man, and it's really truly one of my favorite things to eat. I actually had it last night as I'm thinking about it.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

You know, and it's just a very humble but just really delicious stew. We pair that at the restaurant in Elmina with a whole fried snapper or sea bass. And it's really just the perfect combination.

SM:

Oh. I just think I wanted to name some of those dishes because I wanted the people at home again to read some of the. . . you know, hear you describing it because that's what you use in the book. You're kind of with Korsha you describe these dishes and they're so brilliant. So, I want people to understand that.

What I want to talk about as well was Jambalaya and how that came about, because did that come from Jollof Rice?

EA:

You know what, there's the red rice, Jollof rice, sort of, you'll see different versions of a Jollof rice throughout the diaspora, the African diaspora, whether it's, again, red rice in the American South, jambalaya, and similar to how we spoke about the peri-peri pepper, sort of taking other ingredients that are from different parts of the world and, you know, putting it together specifically in the American South. That jambalaya is a version of Jollof rice that has different cuts of chicken and seafood and, you know, andouille sausage as well. And it's an absolutely delicious and rich and hearty dish. One of my favorite things to eat when I go to places like New Orleans or, you know, elsewhere. But yeah, very, very similar as far as the base is concerned, taking that tomato base the same way that you would for Jollof rice, and creating a very depth, hearty rice space and sort of just putting everything else together. It's one of the most delicious things that you can have if you've ever had jambalaya for sure.

SM:

Yeah, no, absolutely is. And I just wanted to understand the mixture of that between, you know, coming in from West Africa and ending up in New Orleans and that area anyway.

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

So that's fantastic. But let me ask again one question. So very recently, in fact, a couple of weeks ago, I was in Jekyll Island in Georgia.

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

And that's where the site where the one of the last slave ships that came in when it was illegal to bring slaves in to America at this time, but they were bringing them in.

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

And then once they were in, they could start kind of exchanging them, as it were for, you know. And so this was, became, they escaped the, what do you call it? The Wanderer, this ship in Georgia.

EA:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

And they began to become the Gullah Geechee.

EA:

Yes.

SM:

You know, the Gullah Geechee community. And you talk about, you mention those a lot in this, and I'd love you just to explain to people what the Gullah Geechee is and why they were so important to food in the United States. Because that to me is very, again, the food, it comes from a bad place, but it's amazing, the food.

EA:

Absolutely, absolutely that. One of the more beautiful cultures here in America, I think about like American culture and what truly sit like, man, I can't a state or a region, specifically a state that has its own sort of vibrancy and life to it. And I can't think of Louisiana, specifically New Orleans without, you know, saying that, right. And the same thing comes with South Carolina and the Gullah Geechee region. The people are descendants of West Africa, Central Africa as well, who have really taken the pride of the food, the culture, the traditions, the celebrations, the mournings, the funerals, and still hold them very true to this day and age. One of the ingredients that you'll see sort of hallmarks of that is rice and the use of rice and the embodiment of that.

SM:

Oh, yes.

EA:

One of my favorite chefs in American, period, BJ Dennis, is from that area, Gullah Geechee, and speaks so intelligently to the food and to the region and speaks with passion about it all. But they are, you know, as West African as West African can be, but then also as American, as American can be. And they have such an amazing sort of point of view to the food and to the region as well. And it's a small group. It's a very small community but it's a robust one and they have so much pride in everything that they do.

SM:

Yeah, that's, and I've met, we had one of the events I went to, we had one of the chefs coming from the Gullah Geechee and cooking this meal for us and I still dream about it now.

But let's talk about your time as well. So, let's talk about your continuing time on TV because, you know, that's something special that's only happened to you now, or within the last few years. When I was first commenting on your cooking with you know, our mutual friend, should we say Guy, I described it as you're cooking as elegant, informed, strategic, and full of far-flung flavors. I could. . . I'm trying to. . . so that's how I described it and I didn't know you at the time but I could see what you were doing.

EA:

Sure.

SM:

And I, you know, coming around then. So, tell, tell us about your cooking now.

EA:

It's really a combination of traditional home, very meek, humble beginnings, but then also, you know, I'm inspired by chefs like Michael and Brian Voltaggio. I'm inspired by chefs like Alex Guarnaschelli and Maneet Chauhan, and chefs who take their culture and background and elevate it in a way that is both unique, a very cool offering. So, I think I'm a little bit of all of that, you know? I love combinations of flavors. I think my lens is West African, so I tend to go there.

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

But I love the refinement. I love the sort of molecular gastronomy aspect of food. I love, you know, all of the above. And, and, it's, I don't know, how do I define myself as far as a chef? I just like to cook really good food and I like to execute it well, you know, as best as I can.

SM:

Which is as best as you can do.

EA:

Yeah, exactly, exactly that. You know, technical cooking is extremely important and making sure that you hit those marks of a, you know, if you're calling it a braise, it should be braised efficient. If it's a well done, excuse me, if it's a medium rare, it's a medium rare, so forth and so on. And, you know, putting those hours into making sure that the technicality points of the dishes are there. But then, I think you start creating very special moments and almost getting. . . creating jazz, you know, when you can bring in your culture. . .

SM:

Yeah, that's a very good way of putting it.

EA:

. . . and other things in there as well. Yeah, yeah. When you can do that in that combination, Simon, then now you're really in a different ballpark. And, you know, again, chefs like Maneet Chauhan, who's able to do that so technically sound, but then also bring in her culture. And now she's in a different stratosphere. That's what I'm inspired by.

SM:

I first judged Maneet 15 years ago, 16 years ago, in fact, on The Next Iron Chef and she was good then and now I work with her a lot and you can see how everything she's doing is building up and taking all the things that she learns along the way and she comes up to now she's on a totally different level.

EA:

Agreed, yeah.

SM:

She's a great, great, great person to have. I cook Indian food, but not like her.

[Laughter]

EA:

[Laughter]

SM:

But let's talk about that then, because I was going to ask you a couple of questions just about your cooking. When you cook a dish and you learnt to at Johnson and Wales, is that right? Yeah.

EA:

Yes, yeah.

SM:

So how do you start? Do you start with the West African ingredients and you try to bring them into your techniques here, you know your French techniques, you know, whatever you want or you do it the other way. You have techniques and you wanted to bring West Indian, West African rather, dishes into that.

EA:

Yeah, I think, I think it's the latter. I think it's technique driven for me. Again, going to Johnson and Wales and working in different restaurants, you learn sort of the fundamentals. But specifically speaking, as much as I love my alma mater, I didn't really get to study a lot of West African food there.

SM:

Yeah, I'm sure.

EA:

You know, was mostly French, was mostly European centric, right? So, it left sort of a, a yearning to want to see that food being represented on the same sort of scale as every other cuisine that was sort of lauded at the time. And now I think, you know, I've been able to sort of help steward that with other amazing chefs from the country and the region and the continent itself. So, I think of technique first, I think it's the dish should make sense. And then if there's opportunity to add in a West African flair or profile to it. Then again, now it sets the dish apart from so many others. And I think really that's my superpower right there.

SM:

[Laughter]

EA:

Just as anybody else's superpower would be as well. Again, technically sound food is always important. Nobody wants to eat. . . whether it's coming from China, Africa, Europe, if the food is not technically made right, no one's gonna wanna eat it. So, you know, I think that should be the base, the hallmark of it first. And then after, the flavor profile really sets it apart.

SM:

And I think when you do that, I mean, I'm looking at some of your menus. So, I said, let's talk about that menu as well. There are certain ingredients you like to bring to people like you, you'll do an eggs Benedict. So, people will recognize that when they're reading it. But if you read what's in it, it's a lot different.

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

You do steak and eggs, you do Wagyu ribeye. But underneath that, they mean something a lot more different. Is that how you describe that?

EA:

Absolutely. I think that's a, you know, sort of the challenge in the sandbox that I like playing in, Simon, is making sure that I can appease and sort of remind and bring nostalgic memories to folks who are familiar with these ingredients and these flavor profiles, but then also offer something unique and exciting and new to people who are not. And I think the best way to do that is with sort of classic dishes offered in a unique way. So, you know, doing a burger, a yassa burger, you're familiar with that flavor profile and sort of that oniony jam with. . .

SM:

Yes.

EA:

. . . you know, turmeric, and mustard and onion. But if you condense that down and, you know, put that on a burger, why wouldn't it be able to work? You know, it's delicious. So, stuff like that, or even the peri-peri hollandaise. . .

SM:

Yes it is.

EA:

. . .you know, we talked about the peri-peri pepper itself and placing that with the hollandaise. So yeah, there's different ways to sort of bridge the gap, so to speak. And I think offering very unique sort of dishes that are also familiar is a really cool way to do that.

SM:

Fantastic. And, and, finally, before I get some other fun questions that I'm just going to do for you, what are the interesting dishes that you're seeing coming out of Ghana itself? Because, you know, there are the traditional, but they also have lots of young chefs who come in and open these amazing restaurants using Ghanaian food like you. So, have you been back to Ghana recently and have seen what they're doing? And, I'd love to know what they're doing in those foods as well.

EA:

Yeah, I love it as well. I think it's a cool sort of renaissance that's happening in the creative space, specifically in food. I've been able to go to Ghana last year and, you know, I try to get to the country once or twice every year. You know, as great as the classics are, you have chefs who are doing some really unique offerings. And what I'm seeing as well is sort of the, the unification of the continent, you know, breaking different African cuisine from Central Africa, East Africa. . .

SM:

Yeah.

EA:

. . . South Africa, and combining those dishes, ingredients together and now offering almost like this global continental approach to the cuisine, which I think is brilliant and unifying in a way that's really cool. So yeah, there's a lot of chefs doing amazing things, you know. The youth always has something new to offer, I think.

SM:

Always.

EA:

Yeah, yeah, but it's, you know, sometimes it sticks and, you know, when it does, it's very impactful and it's a movement. It's very impactful.

SM:

We've got some what I call fun questions. If you were a meal, if you yourself were a meal, what would it be?

EA:

Great, that's a great one. If I was a meal, I would have to be rice. I can eat rice eight days a week. I can eat it all morning and night. So, I would be rice, a rice dish. Same thing, it's gotta be rice, paella, risotto, Jollof, Waakye.

SM:

Any type of rice as well.

EA:

Give me any sort of rice dish and I'm taking it down, yeah.

SM:

Okay, that's a good one. Okay, this is an interesting one. If you had to go back in time to any meal, where would it be? Anytime, any, you it could be at your family's house. It could be, one of you, you tell us.

EA:

Two things, I don't know if I'm cheating with this one, but two memories come to mind. Mom, mom, my parents' house and having fried yam and fish and the different sauces, that mom's hot sauce and the Shito. Those are just some of my favorite food memories. And then probably my most memorable dining experience at a restaurant was at Eleven Madison Park for my birthday, my 30th birthday or something like that. And just the, man, the poetry and the food and the tasting menu, it was an incredible experience. So, those two things come to mind for sure.

SM:

If you had a time to go back in time to see the invention of anything, where would you go?

EA:

The invention of anything? Really? Anything?

SM:

Yeah, anything.

EA:

That's incredible question. That is an incredible question. I would say, huh. I might be cheating here, but like I was around for it, but like when it specifically happened, the internet.

SM:

Oh.

EA:

I feel like the internet was probably one of the last most impactful inventions that has definitely caused ripple waves and still is causing ripple waves. So, it was early 90s or late 80s, I believe.

SM:

Early 90s, you are talking about.

EA:

Yeah, yeah.

SM:

Yeah, I was well into my growing up by then.

EA:

Yeah.

SM:

But I was in my thirties, but that was, no, that's a perfectly good answer.

EA:

I would say that and really like the boardroom or the moments when it all sort of happened and who was there to first like, you know, talk about it and, you know, I can communicate with someone from halfway across the world. And then in that matter of an instant and, you know, I guess passing that idea and making it like, you know, something that was, yeah, let's do it. Like I would love to have been in that room when the internet happened.

[Laughter]

SM:

I think I would add to that the people who began writing about food. So, that was the first time maybe 20 years ago, no, 25 years ago, we had Chowhound, eGullet.

EA:

Mmm.

SM:

I was actually there when it happened and I got onto those. And that's where I began to know Anthony Bourdain.

EA:

Yeah

SM:

He was on those and he began to contact me and go, oh, I like this. Can I come and go to this pub with you?

EA:

Yes.

SM:

And he did that to me and I thought. . .

EA:

I love that.

SM:

. . . and I'm going how does Anthony Bourdain. . .

EA:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . come to me and get it and go to a pub in London?

EA:

Yeah, yeah.

SM:

And that to me was something just so. . . .

EA:

That's incredible.

SM:

Yeah remark. . . and that really kind of got me into that area. He was. . . . But all that because we had Heston Blumenthal was on there. You would talk about all these people that you could come and do those. You know, Heston Blumenthal was one of the great molecular guys and also historical guys. You had, I mentioned Ed Schoenfeld at Red Farm. He would come in and talk about his dumplings. And all of these people and they were just fantastic because otherwise had never have known about them. . .

EA:

Exactly.

SM:

. . . apart from buying the book and they were all there. So, I think that's a very, very good idea. And finally, what are your social media sites so people can see, you know, what you're up to?

EA:

Oh, cheers.

SM:

Where you're to be all these because that's very, very important. You've got to people have got to know where to find you. Yeah, talking about the internet.

EA:

Social media. So yes, Chef Eric Adjepong, A-D-J-E-P-O-N-G. That is across all the platforms [Ed Note: Instagram, Facebook, X]. My website, chefadjepong.com. Where else? FoodNetwork.com is another great place to figure out the next showing and taping. And yeah, I try to have a nice digital presence as much as possible. It's tough. It feels like a whole another job, you know, dealing with that. But it's so important. Yeah.

SM:

I just want to say first of all, thank you for being on. You are an amazing chap. And when I'm talking about West Africa, that's one of my favorite areas that I've visited in the world. The people there are so kind. The food is just amazing. Everything about it is a great thing. So having you, I think, I think you're going to take West African food into all kinds of new realms because you're the only person or not the only person but a person who goes out and really brings that food into people's homes and particularly with things like the Food Network. I think you're really taking them there. So, thank you. Thank you.

EA:

Absolutely. Cheers.

OUTRO MUSIC

SM:

Make sure to check out the website associated with this podcast at www.EatMyGlobe.com where we will be posting the transcripts from each episode, along with all the references and resources we used putting the episodes together, in case you want to delve deeper into each subject. There is also a contact button, so please do let us know if there are any subjects that you would like us to cover.

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Thank you and goodbye from me, Simon Majumdar, and we’ll speak to you soon on the next episode of EAT MY GLOBE: Things You Didn’t Know You Didn’t Know About Food.

CREDITS

The EAT MY GLOBE Podcast is a production of “It’s Not Much But It’s Ours” and “Producer Girl Productions.”

[Ring sound]

We would also like to thank Sybil Villanueva for all of her help both with the editing of the transcripts and essential help with the research.