EAT MY GLOBE:

INTERVIEW WITH JET TILA

INTRO MUSIC

Simon Majumdar (“SM”):

Hello everybody. I'm Simon Majumdar, welcome to Eat My Globe, a podcast about things you didn't know you didn't know about food. And what a treat we have for you today. One of my closest friends from the Food Network, one of the nicest guys on the planet, someone who I have known for well over a decade, which worries me a lot. One of the greatest ambassadors for Thai cuisine one could ever encounter. Ladies and gentlemen, of course, I'm talking about the one and only Mr. Jet Tila.

Jet Tila (“JT”):

Simon.

SM:

Jet, how are you?

JT:

I'm good my brother, I'm really good. It's nice to be on this. Huge congratulations, I listen to you regularly and what a cool thing to be here with you.

SM:

Well, fantastic. Before we move on, Jet, would you mind telling us and the audience what you're working on right now? TV shows that you can tell us about, new books, your fantastic work with Ali, who is a great baker, and anything you'd like to tell us.

JT:

You know, the Tila universe is, what we've dubbed. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

. . .is quite busy, you know, it's. . . It comprises of a few things. So the restaurant projects are great. So we are. . .  I am the co-owner of a chain called Pei Wei.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

We're a hundred and sixty restaurants around the country. So, you know, check out Pei Wei. We also have a new concept that we're launching called Dragon Tiger Noodles in Las Vegas. It's kind of a choose your own adventure for noodles for broths, etc. Again, that's Dragon Tiger specifically in Las Vegas now, but we also have one in Denver. So that's the. . .

On the TV front. You know, right now we're depending on when you're listening, Tournament of Champions. Season five is either happening or has happened.

Best Bite in Town, which is a newer show from Guy.

We've also have Wild Card Kitchen, which kind of, you know, gamifies, you know. Imagine poker meets cooking. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

. . . and a bunch of your favorite Food Network stars after dark.

And, and so those are the three primary shows, obviously, you and I are all over the universe, the Food Network. And then on the book side, our latest cookbook, 101 Thai Dishes You Need to Cook Before You Die, still doing quite well. And I'm teasing, you know what, Simon, the publishers are asking me to do a Chinese book. So, so we'll see.

SM:

Oooh.

JT:

I mean that, that's the general goings on without putting everyone to sleep.

SM:

[Laughter]

Well, I as everyone knows you and I are both on Tournament of Champions which may or may not be over. I think it'll be over by the time we watch this, but we won't mention anything. . .

JT:

Nope, no spoilers.

SM:

. . .but I love working on that as a commentator too. That's one of the pleasures of my life. Now, let's talk about your Thai food and what's happening there. Jet, please tell me about your elevation to the ambassador for the Royal Thai Consulate General in Los Angeles. I mean, was there some more celebratory role or did you have any duties? Do you have any duties?

JT:

You know, I, you know what, what I'll, I'll tell everyone first. I don't have diplomatic immunity.

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

I'll start with that one. Um, so I'm still beholden to all the laws of the land here. Um, it's about 50, 50 Simon, a few years ago, you know, the Consul General and I were having a conversation, you know, Thai food is the fourth most enjoyed ethnic food almost in the world. We're definitely not that high in ranking of population, but we are in popularity of cuisine and it's a really. . . And it's due to a concerted effort by the government. So we, I was asking the Consul that, you know, to give someone a recognition, uh, that speaks for Thai chefs in America and not really expecting that would be me, but the Consul says, well, guess what kiddo it's going to be you.

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

And I was like, darn it. Uh, I walked into that one. So some of my roles are basically to work with what we call Team Thailand. You know, the Thai government locally is comprised of Thai Tourism Authority, the, you know, we've got Thai Chamber of Commerce, we have Thai Trade Association. So I do have some specific roles within the government to recommend. . . to do reports on certain products to help restaurateurs, you know, you know, continue to, you know, create campaigns. There are national and international campaigns that we have. And, you know, my non-official role is to, you know, be on TV and in cookbooks and on the radio and waving the flag of delicious Thai food.

SM:

Which is incredible and we'll talk about that later because we're going to talk about the areas of Thailand which I've been to all and they're just. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . really, really different but incredibly exciting as they are. But before we go on to that, first of all, and I forgot to put the questions in here, you've got to tell us about your, is it five?

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

Guinness Book of Records you've got and I just needed to ask you that which I forgot to do but I wanted to do.

[Laughter]

JT:

Yo, of course. You know, over the last 20 years, you know, in my work with different organizations, you know, I've broken, you know, five, it's actually technically six world records. I'll just say them really quickly.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

I've broken stir-fried twice, once at a thousand pounds, the second time at four thousand pounds.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

I've got the world's largest, longest granola bar. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

. . .at four hundred and twenty feet. I've got a seafood stew at about four thousand or six thousand pounds.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

I've got a I've got a sushi roll at 500 or 600 feet. I've actually forgotten the technicalities now. And then a, believe it or not, a fruit salad at 40,000 pounds.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

And then your natural question is why and how.

SM:

Yes.

[Laughter]

JT:

Over the years, I've worked for some phenomenal food institutions and companies. And, you know, a lot of them had to do with college and university food service.

JT:

So, you know, with University of Massachusetts Amherst and Compass Group, you know, we created these really great events around universities and, you know, every pound of food was eaten immediately and there was no waste. So, you know, they were just fun corporate chef marketing events.

SM:

Oh, those are really fun though. While we're talking about this, would you mind telling us about your parents? And, actually, I don’t know. Do you have any siblings?

JT:

Oh yeah, I'll start there. I have a brother.

SM:

Okay.

JT:

He's younger than I am and he's a. . . he proudly serves on in the Los Angeles Police Department.

SM:

Oh wow.

JT:

So he's, yeah, law enforcement is if I wasn't chefing, I probably would have joined the military or law enforcement. So we have job envy, we envy each other's job. My parents emigrated from Thailand, you know, the same year but separately, they did not know each other. So. . .

SM:

Oh, right.

JT:

The first group of Thai people came to the States in 1966, by the way.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

It's officially recognized that, you know, Thailand was, you know, helping the US with forward operating bases and during the Vietnam War.

SM:

Yes, yes.

JT:

And part of that was, you know, getting visas to, for young Thai people to come over. And we call it the first wave or the first gen of Thai people and they landed here in the east of Los Angeles in the east of Hollywood actually in the Silver Lake area. And there's a fantastic book out there by a Thai scholar that kind of will give you the longer form. I'm going to give you the more fun, shorter, you know, points.

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

So, ‘66, the first group of Thais came, but my parents were both kind of double immigrants, both of their. . . . Every grandparent I have, Simon, was born in China. So. . . .

SM:

They're in Hainan, aren't they?

JT:

They are specifically Hainanese and they. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . . didn't know each other, believe it or not. And Hainan's not a big place. So I'm pure blood Hainanese Chinese.

SM:

Wow, that's fantastic. And I love that. . . . I've been to that area of China.

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

Yeah, when I've been traveling around China. And apart from the fact the food there is just sensational, which it is.

JT:

Absolutely.

SM:

And so I was going to ask you about that because you must have, although you were born here, you must have this kind of joy of bringing Chinese food together with Thai food. And that's why I guess you've, you know, written some of your books.

JT:

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I identify as a Chinese kid in Thai culture. I mean, that's what I do because my, my first influence. . . my first cooking influence was my maternal grandmother, and she was my primary caregiver. So imagine thousands of days from babyhood to middle school, her being my, you know, everything and her rituals every day was we take the bus to Chinatown, Los Angeles from East LA. We would shop, we would eat dim sum, eat some pastry. She'd play mahjong and then we'd take the bus home and we'd make dinner. And so those were two meal periods in my most formative years with my Chinese grandmother. And you know, I was somewhat of an ADD kid and she knew to harness kind of my, my, my focus, she stuck me next to her in the kitchen. And I had my 10,000 hours of cooking probably by the time I was 12. I mean if we really start to deep dive.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

So, so, yeah man, my love for my food starts with Chinese cuisine and then growing up in our restaurants. We had seven restaurants by the ’90s, from the ‘70s to the ‘90s. . .

SM:

Wow.

JT:

. . . and I worked every single position from you know cleaning bathrooms to washing dishes to prep cook to wok cook and then I would do the front house. I was a bus boy and then a food runner and the server and a manager. So I did all. I've worked every restaurant position by the time I was 16.

SM:

Wow. Wow. That's I mean, I didn't know this about you. . .

JT:

Right.

SM:

. . . and I've known you for a long time, but wow. So tell me about what you see the difference is because I know when we eat American Chinese it's like if we eat British Chinese it's very different but the American Thai probably not quite as different yet.

JT:

You know, I would say, you know, I think, you know, I, I consider you a scholar. I know so many food scholars, you know, Thompson and I would say even Andy Ricker. . .

SM:

Yeah, yeah.

JT:

. . . and others. And, you know, I would say I am an expert mainly in American Thai cuisine and the evolution of it from the ‘60s to present day. And although the modern food is very, very close to I would say that you know, authentic, which is a kind of a slippery word.

SM:

Yes it is.

JT:

I've seen the evolution of it from our first restaurant in 1978 until today. And, you know, I think we have tremendously delicious and authentic Thai food here in Los Angeles, regionally, northern, southern, northeastern, Bangkok cuisine. So, you know, most people would say, well, it's sugar. It's, you know, the Thai food is so sweet here. I would say Thai food in Thailand has evolved to be just as sweet here because sweet is such an important component in our cuisine. We have hot, sour, salty, sweet, savory.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

But you can't have food if it's not even a bit sweet. So yeah, and it's really fun to see Americans or, you know, global people diving now into more ethnic, regional specific Thai food.

SM:

Well, we are beginning to see that and I know I go to, you know, what's the other place I really like it, Jitlada.

JT:

Yeah, Jitlada.

SM:

Which I, which, and that has, which area is that from? That's from?

JT:

She's Southern. So a fun fact for your listeners, Jitlada opened about 25 years ago.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

The original owner was from Northern Thailand.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

And then when Jazz and Tui and their family acquired it probably 15, 20 years ago, they're from Southern Thailand. So the trivia question is, yes, Jitlada is a Southern restaurant, but it started as a Northern restaurant.

SM:

Oh, I, and again, I didn't know that because well, I wasn't here.

JT:

Right, right.

SM:

I was eating in. . .  but we had spectacular Thai places in in England because. . .

JT:

Mmm.

SM:

. . .again, they came from the various different regions. And let's talk about those regions because. . .

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . we're going to talk about the. . . the kind of Thai experience over here in a moment, but let's talk about some of those that really favorite is the wrong word, I guess, but I have got that down here.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

Because people may not know where each dish comes from and they have great historical backgrounds in them.

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

They really do. So I've got them down this way. So Northern Thailand, which is an area that I love, you know, this has got Khao Soi and I'm. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

Forgive my pronunciation because yours is gonna be very good and mine is probably gonna be very, very bad, I'm sure. But Northern Thailand has got Khao Soi, it's got Krabong, is that right?

JT:

Mm-hmm, Krabong. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SM:

And so tell me about the Northern. . .

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . and then we'll move on.

JT:

Sure. Northern Thailand, I think you have to understand Thailand geographically.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

And it's further from the equator. It's very high up in terms of elevation. So we're talking about cooler temperatures, which means more hardwood forests. And we're talking about more protein, animal protein, you know, everything from ox to chickens to pig. So we're also talking about the Golden Triangle, you know, influence of, you know, Cambodia. . .

SM:

Yep.

JT:

. . .Vietnam. You know, so, so we're getting very. . . . All spice. It's spicy for sure, but it's definitely you're going to feel a lot of more Indian and Cambodian and Karen, you know, all the Hill tribes . . .

SM:

Yes.

JT:

. . .influence in Vietnam influence. So, you know, I would say savory, very meat forward, all sticky rice, and then what we call chili dips we take, you know, before. . . . Thailand, we always eat with our hands and before Rama the fourth, you're at Rama five, sorry, who studied in England. . .

SM:

Yeah, yeah.

JT:

. . . or had an English nanny, as we all know, we always eat with our hands and our primary starch to eat with our hands in the north is sticky rice. So you would take sticky rice as your primary starch and then you grab a little bit of chili dip or a little bit of meat or a little bit of curry. And that's how you eat Northern Thai food.

SM:

Oh, and now I'm getting incredibly hungry.

JT:

Me too. Me too. We need to go to Spicy Thai Barbecue and eat some northern food soon.

SM:

Oh gosh, and tell me about the dishes that. . . I mentioned Khao Soi has just one that you. . . .

JT:

Yeah, Khao Soi, we should talk about Khao Soi because I think it's probably the most popular northern dish right now.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:  

Khao is the Thai word for rice. Soi actually means to, to, to cut into strips. So they're rice noodles, and then made into served with a very rich curry broth. And that curry broth can either be beef based or chicken based. . .

SM:

Oh.

JT:

. . . primarily. And then you have those big warming Indian spices.

JT:

But you also have the addition of all the herbs like galanga and Thai lime leaves. So I mean, I think Thai curry is the kind of that, that fusion between Indian spices, but, but, you know, Southeast Asian herbs. And then, you know, North, the North is also known for their, their use of charcuterie, believe it or not.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

You know, yeah, sausage making because, you know, we have so much protein and the way to preserve protein was to grind all your meats and fats with lemongrass, chilies and garlic, basically a curry base. You stuffed them into cases and then you would actually cure them and smoke them. So it's a very, you know, again, meat, it’s a very meat barbecue charcuterie based, it's like the Germany of Thailand, I would say.

SM:

[Laugher]

That's fantastic. Oh, you've got you've got me so hungry right now.

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

Tell me about kind of the northeastern part of Thailand.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

That's where I looked next. Tell me about the dishes there because again, those are dishes that I love, love, love when I'm here.

JT:

Yeah, the region we call the region in Thai, Issan.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

It's Eastern, Northeastern and Issan food is heavily, heavily influenced by Laos. A lot of, a lot of our cuisine is, is, is, you know, like Papaya Salad. Let's just start there. And I, most, most Lao, Laotian people would say Thai people stole Papaya Salad from, from. . .

SM:

I've been to Laos and they really do say that you have stolen it.

[Laughter]

JT:

They really do say that. They're not kidding and I give credit. So now we're talking about Papaya Salad. We're talking about more fermentation. I would say I would really categorize the Northeast with more of the sour flavors. If the North was more umami, the Northeast would be more sour and spicy. So now we have pickling. . .

SM:

Oh.

JT:

. . . and now we have fermentation.

JT:

We're still in sticky rice mode. We still have a decent amount of meat. But now we talk about yum, the concept of yum. Y U M, it means hot. It's that sour, sweet, spicy salads. And that is very Northeastern. A little bit of sticky rice, a lot of vegetables that have been pickled, and a little bit of protein.

SM:

I love that because, you know, I love the Northern Thailand, but I really do love the North, Northeastern Thailand. It's just, the Issan restaurants are things that I've encountered in LA, but in England, that's what we have primarily in England.

JT:

Right.

SM:

And so whenever I have that, it's been really. . . .

JT:

And since I'm based in LA, maybe we'll just I'll give you one restaurant or two restaurants. So northern, northern restaurant, go to Spicy Thai Barbecue, check out Spicy Thai Barbecue.

SM:

Okay.

JT:

Northeastern go to Issan Station. It's. . . I think they might have been, you know, nominated for a Beard or something.

SM:

Oh wow.

JT:

But Issan Station, and then we'll go to the next region. I'll give you some restaurants that aren't on all the list. Some things to check out, you know.

SM:

That would be phenomenal.

JTYeah.

SM:

And okay, let's talk about something that's kind of not really an area, but it's. . .

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . the Royal Thai cuisine, because that's something again, that whenever I go to Bangkok and I go to Royal Thai restaurants, those are really, again, for me, who doesn't know it as well as you do, obviously, I, I get to try these dishes and they're phenomenal. Again, they're so special.

JT:

Yeah, so, you know, we have, we have, obviously Thailand is probably one of the few Southeast Asian kingdoms that have never been colonized. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . . or never been, you know, we've traded wars and borders with Burma for many, many years. But we have this very kind of ornate, naturally organic court food. And, you know, we're talking about very, you know, many, many, many small dishes enjoyed, you know, with, with carving with fruit carving and vegetable carving. That's where that comes from basically. So you see a lot of Thai ornate fruit carving.

SM:

Yes.

JT:

And again, in Thailand before Rama the fifth, we used our hands. So again, everything's based on rice, we're a rice-based diet. But because we have Chinese and Indian influence, we do eat noodles. So Mee Krob, you know. . .

SM:

Oh, yeah.

JT:

. . . it, you know, goes back to kind of this court ornate food, um. . .  

SM:

That's one of my absolute favorites.

JT:

a lot of the curries. . . . Me too, by the way. Not a lot of people make it anymore, Simon. Yeah it's a. . . .

SM:

I probably couldn't make it but I haven't seen it much in LA.

JT:

No, not now anymore.

SM:

But it's so, so. . . . When I went. . . . When Thompson had his restaurant in London, had a very good restaurant and this is David Thompson, is that correct?

JT:

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

SM:

And he had this. . . . So this is a guy who was from Australia, I believe.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

And he came over but he had such a passion for Thai food across the range. But he used to make that in his restaurant in London whose name escapes me now. I'm really. . . . .But he used to make that and it was sticky and it was and it was so. . . .

JT:

It's a fried rice vermicelli in a sweet tamarind and tomato base with shrimp and tofu. It really, it's addictive. It's everything you want.

SM:

It is. It really is. And so that, oh, that, so that's one of the royal dishes?

JT:

Yeah, that has origins in royal dishes as well. And then the ornate food where, I know pineapple fried rice has been done to death, but the thought of taking a fruit, carving it into a vessel. . .

SM:

Yep.

JT:

. . . and then putting something in it, that also goes back to court food. It's very ornate, it's taken a lot of time, and it looks beautiful.

SM:

Oh, I'm just getting so hungry now. And finally, for this kind of expedition, shall we say, of Southern Thailand, which again is an area that I love. And my favorite, I think, is from there.

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

And I may be wrong, but is a Massaman Curry, which is a kind of. . .

JT:

Oh yeah.

SM:

. .  .Indian dish. It all kind of came up from there. And obviously, my history is part Indian.

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

And my parents as well, well my father had some areas in Burma or Myanmar now.

JT:

Right?

SM:

And so there's a mixture of those areas and so tell me about Massaman Curry because again I just love it.

JT:

Yeah, Massaman Curry, you know, also sometimes known as Muslim Curry. . . .

SM:

Yeah. Yep.

JT:

. . .you know, because, you know, in the south, again, think about it geographically, right? You know, the long tail of Thailand goes very, very far down south. And. . .

SM:

Yep.

JT:

. . .you know, although most of Thailand is Theravada Buddhist, we do have a nice, you know, population of Muslims in the south.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

Which with that comes, you know, the, the Middle Eastern influence and also the Indian influence. And that's where we get a lot of spices. So, so Massaman Curry, if you think about a Thai curry, a red or green or yellow, now we add a lot of warming spices, cardamom, cinnamon, you know. . . .

SM:

Which you don't see in a lot of other. . . .

JT:

Not at all.

SM:

You don't see that in, like I said, the red curry or the green.

JT:

No.

SM:

Which are really just called curry because I guess people are trying to find a name to explain them really. Rather than. . . .

JT:

I think so, but I do think there's a direct religious introduction of. . . . The Indian religion has also introduced practices of cooking. And I think the thought was the same, but how we got there were different, right?

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

We didn't hear that people brought spices with them, right? Through the spice routes.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

And then, then they started in, then they, they showed Thai people how to make curry. This curry meaning a spice paste. And then as they went north, I believe anyway, I'm not a food anthropologist, but from a chef's point of view, logically, you know, in the central, central part of Thailand, we have all these herbs. So they married these two practices of curry made with dry spices and then curry made with herbs. And Massaman is that Massaman has the lemongrass and galanga and shallots and shrimp paste. And then you add to that the, the cloves and the cinnamon. . .

SM:

Cardamom.

JT:

. . . and in cardamom and it makes such a perfect harmony. And then you stew beef. . .

SM:

Yep.

JT:

. . .  or you know, and you stew mainly beef and then you add potatoes, sometimes peanuts or nuts. And it's just a sweet, warming, delicious curry that you just slather all over Jasmine rice. It is really one of the perfect foods, I think.

SM:

[Laughter]

Oh. Again the way you talk about it is just fantastic, and I think you've given the recipe there. I was going to ask you to give a little recipe.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

But I think you have you've, you've understood it so and you've described it so kind of blissfully. I'm again just sitting here getting very hungry. I think that's a great way of talking about the, the period but I did want to say that I think Buddhism as well brought a lot of those dishes because Buddhism they actually ate beef and now everyone goes, oh well they don't but in Buddhism they actually ate beef and they took it with them and so they must have come up through the tail end of Thailand and brought it up. What do you think of that?

JT:

I completely agree. And I don't even think it came from the tail end. I, you know, there's such a link between Buddhism in the courts, right, in the Thai royal court, that, you know, with, with  this kind of affinity towards India, because that's where Siddhartha, you know. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . .Buddha came from, I think there was a lot of, you know, not just trade, but almost romance between cultures. And I think we the Thai. . . .

SM:

That's interesting, I've never thought of that. I've never... Yeah.

JT:

Yeah, think about it that way. Because if you've ever been to a temple in Thailand, you know, like the say the Royal Palace do the Royal Palace tour.

SM:

Yeah, yeah.

JT:

You know, although we look we're Southeast Asian and you know, a lot of us, you know, look more East Asian, you know, there's such a love for the story of Siddhartha and you know, so there's a very, there's a huge affinity for India. And I think with that a lot of our food. So not just curry, but we have samosas, right?

SM:

Oh.

JT:

Curry, we call them curry puffs, right?

SM:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

JT:

We have, we have, we have so many of these dishes, pilafs, right? We have so many, you know, dishes that, that, that come from India that have naturally evolved into Thai versions of them.

SM:

Oh wow. Well that makes me happy being an Indian folk.

JT:

Right.

SM:

But that's very interesting. Again, I'd never really thought how it went into Thailand and I know how it went into Burma. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . and I know how it went around those places, but that is very interesting. For me, I always think about how Buddhism has not lost in India, but it's not as big in India as Hinduism or. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . .Jainism or any of those but it's, you know, we're not as. . . We're not as Buddhist friendly, shall I say, as we have been. . .

JT:

Right. That's always been the irony to me.

SM:

. . . but that's moved. Yeah.

JT:

Yeah, that's always been the irony.

SM:

. . .and so and that's how it just moved into your. . . . Let's move into the UK. . . US rather I could say. . .

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . the UK but maybe it would be the UK as well, you know, because you mentioned earlier how it became this very popular how. . . How big did you say it was in the US in terms of how...

JT:

Fourth. Globally, Thai food is the fourth most consumed ethnic, quote unquote, you know, takeout. If you've measured takeout, and the population, you know, it's like it's pizza, Mexican, Italian, then Thai.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

I mean, that's, yeah, that's how popular Thai food is globally.

SM:

Wow, I mean, so I wanted to find out why. . . . I mean apart from the fact that it's really delicious. I mean it is bloody delicious.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

But why?

JT:

Right.

SM:

Because there, there are lots of areas that we have that are again really delicious. But why Thai food?

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

I mean is that to do with Thai people coming over and you know, like Chinese people coming over and staying in a certain place and just sharing their food with the rest of the populace. Tell me why it became so popular.

JT:

I'm gonna. . . . My theory.

SM:

Okay.

JT:

And don't put it. . . . Yeah, this is my own theory. A. I think number one, it's super palette friendly, right? I think the world knows that the world's. . . . Outside of Asia the world's introduction to Asian cuisine is probably in Chinese first. After that probably Japanese. And those, those two are kind of the foundational Asian cuisines globally in my opinion just because of, you know, you know the, the, the proliferation of Chinese people globally. In America, it's been over 200 years, right? So from the 1700s, almost 300 years now. Now, then Thai food is, it's familiar, but more delicious because now you have salt, salty and, and sour and a little bit of spicy.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

So, A, it's delicious B, you know, there's been a very concerted effort by the Thai government to, to really spread Thai food and Thai culture through food around the world. We have you know, that we have the Consul General's part of the Thai Consul General's job globally is to support Thai restaurants, favorably promote Thai food with. . . through tourism. So you know, it's been a very intentional, you know, work that we have all worked on for the last 50 years. And then lastly, I think, you know, the romance between the country of Thailand, as well. I think if you've never been there, if I if I say the words, you know, Japan to an American who's never been there, I think we. . . they've crafted they think about Mount Fuji and they think about this and they think about sushi, right? And they think about fish markets and they think about Samurais. But when I say Thailand, we've done a really good job at kind of, you know, promoting how beautiful our country is and non-political and Thai people are just, you know, good people. So between those three, you know, between the between that kind of, you know, the convergence of deliciousness, government and Thai people, you know, we've really made Thai food, you know, popular around the world.

SM:

I love that. And I love the way you describe them. I noticed, you know, here, Indian food isn't as popular as it is in England. And that's where, again, I think in England it became so popular. We had so many Indians. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . moved on. But one thing I did want to ask you, we have in England a BIR, we call it British Indian Restaurant Food. Which is very different. I always mention Chicken Tikka Masala. . .

JT:

Right.

SM:

. . . was made in Glasgow. It was never made in India. It's made in Glasgow. So I was going to talk about that. I wondered how, you know, Pad Thai. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . became like the most popular dish. And it is. It's the I checked it up.

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

I can't remember what I checked it up on now, but I checked it up. So why?

JT:

Well. . .

SM:

Because it's tasty, but it's not. . . .

JT:

Right. . . there's more reasons though. You're right. I think the. . . firstly it proliferated in Thailand during time of war when rice was short, right? I think we have to go back to, you know, the Thai government making Pad Thai, the national Thai dish, because they literally were promoting this, eat Pad Thai, you know, because it actually takes rice and stretches rice. So the country has more rice noodles than it has rice. And then when we came. . . .

SM:

So that's how, so it came from the. . . .

JT:

That's how it started in Thailand.

SM:

Oh wow, okay.

JT:

Yeah, you could. Yeah, you can read. You could research this. There was a there was a purposeful effort to get Thai people to eat more rice noodles in times. . .

SM:

Wow, okay.

JT:

. . . where we had shortage of rice. And then outside of that, when my family came here in the ‘60s, we were probably the third Thai restaurant in the country.

SM:

Whoa.

JT:

We were the first Thai market in the country verified and, you know, we it's such a, it's such a, it's such a staple dish to us Thai people. And it's easy to make because we could get those noodles because they're the same noodles as pho. The Vietnamese were already here. You know, the Chinese, you know, Mei Fun, but it's a little wider. And, you know, of course, whatever that what's British something Indian cuisine, is that what you call it?

SM:

British. British Indian Restaurant cuisine, it's called.

JT:

There you go.

SM:

And that's where Chicken Tikka Masala, Phall. . .

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

. . . all these dishes that actually you now see in American restaurants as well brought from Britain.

JT:

Right. So we had the Thai version of that Pad Thai when we didn't have tamarind. We borrowed tamarind from our Mexican neighbors. Right. We didn't have fish sauce, so we used soy sauce and we used ketchup. Right. I mean, in the ‘60s, that's all we had.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

So it's very similar to a British restaurant. And then, you know, everyone knows Spicy Basil now.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

Kra Pao, we call it Kra Pao or Drunken Noodles. But back in the day when we couldn't get our basil, we used mint. So it's the same thing. We created these Thai American dishes. Um, uh, in the beginnings where we couldn't get our, our ingredients. So there, we could probably go down the list and name all the Thai dishes that were created through necessity when we didn't have our ingredients.

SM:

Wow. And just out of interest then do you now get people who like the older version that they have in America and then they have the people who are getting the proper ingredients for it?

JT:

Yes, completely. And you know, I, I argue with a lot of my fellow food people often about authenticity because you know, I celebrate all consumption of Thai food, no matter where we are on the spectrum of authenticity. So if I'm in, if I, you know, I've been cooking Thai food for 30 years all over America. And if someone's intro is ketchup, Pad Thai and mint basil, they're on the road. I have them, they love my cuisine, I'm gonna evolve them, I'm gonna take them with me. So I love it, and yes, we see the delineation and I celebrate all of it.

SM:

Fantastic. That's very similar to how I think about Indian food. You can do everything and I make a lot of Chicken Masala. In fact, I'm making Chicken Tikka Masala to. . . this afternoon.

JT:

I'm coming over brother, let me know what time.

SM:

I think you probably have to fight my wife for it, but there you go.

[Laughter]

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

Let's talk about something totally different again. The original what. . . sriracha. Let's talk about sriracha? So let's. . .

JT:

Oh man, that's yeah, fighting words. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah.

SM:

I know well. . .

But we have it created here in LA.

JT:

Yep.

SM:

One type. But you obviously, you know, from the seaside district in Thailand, you've been there. You really support it.

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

You really go all over the world supporting this thing. And so, A, I want to know about the original sauce.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

And then come back to Sriracha itself because, you know, we've got a bottle in that. It's got every different Asian language on the thing.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

So tell us about it because, you know, people don't know that it's an LA sauce, first of all. . .

JT:

It totally is.

SM:

. . . and what your Sriracha is or the Thai Sriracha.

JT:

Let's start by saying Thailand's biggest mistake, food culinary mistake was to not trademark Sriracha.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

So as you and I know, Si Racha is a seaside town, right in Thailand. . .

SM:

Yep.

JT:

. . . and central-ish Thailand. And you know, they're famous for making these chilies.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

And they're famous for making this sauce and this sauce is put on everything. And I would, I would I think the most similar kind of comparison we have is like Hatch chilies.

SM:

Yep.

JT:

Well hatch chilies are still Anaheims and you can grow them anywhere in the world. But you know Hatch, New Mexico did a really good job marketing and making these greens and reds and extra hot, not so hot, and roasting so, so imagine Si Lacha or Si Racha, our Hatch, and then and made this famous chili paste. It's basically chilies, garlic, sugar, a little bit of vinegar and some, and fermentation. Let's slightly. It's a lightly. It's a lacto fermented chili paste.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

Right? And, and it's blended and then it's strained. So you have this very kind of smooth consistency. It's not a, it's a very smooth sauce like Cholula, you know, smooth, right?

SM:

We have, yeah, I have the Thai and I have the LA.

JT:

Right.

SM:

And they're very different.

JT:

Yeah, you're right. So I think it was David Tran, the Huy Fong family, you know, was genius and he made this sauce that was just delicious and it went on. He's, he's Vietnamese-Chinese or Vietnamese. And he made this sauce to eat with pho, right. And you on the side of pho, you would have Sriracha, his Sriracha and a little bit of Hoisin. And then the, the sushi bars started adapting and making spicy tuna rolls. So you these two massive cultures that were using this sauce for so many dishes. And then, you know, that proliferated as we know. And hats off and I'm so happy for him and the Huy Fong family, but it's not flavor-wise Thai Sriracha.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

And that's only been, that's my biggest [bleep].

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

And I wrote about it in my books and I talk about it in articles. Both are great, they're just not the same. And do yourself a favor and just try Thai Sriracha. When you can, go find some, order some and have some, because it's not the same. It's different. It's sweeter, it's less acid and has a more balanced flavor and it's smoother. That's all.

SM:

So out of interest. . .

[Laughter]

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

Which so we have this, I don't know if it's an American saying as well, but we have this saying in England, “horses for courses.”

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

Which means you have one horse, you know, will and so you have to, you know, some dip, some are good for this, some are good for that.

JT:

Yeah. Yeah.

SM:

So which, which do you think or some of them could be better than others. So which do you think?

JT:

You nailed it. Horses for Courses. I like that. Green cap rooster Sriracha David, you know the Huy Fong sriracha for pho and for spicy tuna. I use them. I have in my kitchen. I use them in my restaurants. Thai Sriracha belongs on Thai food. Pad Thai, Thai omelets, any Drunken Noodles, anything Thai, serve Thai Sriracha. Vietnamese food, Japanese food, whatever. If you love Sriracha, use it on everything. But no, they're not the same. They are not the same, they taste different. And use the right horse for the right course. I like that, Simon, I'm stealing that.

SM:

[Laughter]

Well, you're good says that that's the thing from London or from the UK. Let's have a look just briefly, you know.  What's the future of Thai food? Say in, in Thailand because a lot, you know, we think of. . . . Oh Thai food and it's that everyone thinks of all these dishes stuck in there in the ancient times or in the. . . but, but there's. . . . I know when I've been to Thailand, there are a lot of young chefs who are doing. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . incredible things. And yes, they're using Thai ingredients, but they're bringing the West in. They're bringing the East in. They're bringing all these ingredients into their food, because that's true everywhere. Where, you know, in London or here or everywhere, people are using all these Thai ingredients in our food.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

So, how, tell me about Thailand, because I think that's, you know, it's a really exciting place to be eating.

JT:

Yeah, I think the future of Thai food mimics the, the, the current state of American young chefs. I think it's Thai kids, Thai chefs traveling outside of Thailand and bringing influences in. So, you know, Thai people are fiercely passionate about food. It is a pleasure. It's not just sustenance. It really is a way of life. I mean, we are, we are mad about food.

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

So, I, I think, though, the, the. . . . I think Thai people also practice the Japanese kind of belief of shokunin, right. Like, one thing I do my whole life for four generations. So Thai food, I think, is a lot like Japanese food in that, you know, with the James Beard and with all these awards and with the internet and with YouTube, you know, we're going to see these mom and pop places, you know, who it's an 80 year old lady who's made the best Pad See Ew in the world. And now because there's YouTube and Michelin, you know, recognitions, they're going to explode. Our hawker stalls are going to just continue to get more famous and popular.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

And our young people are going to travel to Europe and to Japan and other parts of Asia and Latin America. I think we're going to see more Latin Asian fusions. I do. And they already exist in Mexico and Latin America. They don't exist in Thailand yet. I think they're going to go the other way.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

That, that's what I'm tracking for the, for, for the future of Thai food, because that, our Latin cooks have are so brilliant and they've infused Asian food into their cuisine so well. I think we're going to see it go the other way.

SM:

Oh fantastic. And I hope that happens because it's going to be terrific. It really is. . .

JT: 

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . . population. And I just see how that's working, you know, on Tournament of Champions and all those.

JT:  

Mm-hmm.

SM:

Are you finding a lot of people writing to you and wanting to know more about Thai food and the various areas?

JT:

Yeah, I would say my number one passion in life outside of my family is teaching. I think, you know, what really drives me and gives me deep, deep fulfillment is knowing that I've imparted something and knowledge onto people. So, you know, through, through Food TV and through the TV shows, you know, my mission, my drive, right, my core value, what, what gets me out of bed is knowing that I'm spreading culture. And yes, Thai part is a big. . . . Thai, Thai food is a big part of it. But so is Chinese food. And so is Vietnamese food. And so is Chinese food. So, so yeah, man, like I feel blessed every day that yeah, and it's not on, it's not, it's not an accident that I'm making those dishes on Tournament, right? I'm making Khao Soi and I'm making Bibimbap and I'm making, you know, all these curries, because I have, I have this audience of millions of people.

SM:

Yep, you do.

JT:

And they trust me, right?

SM:

Yeah, they do.

JT:

And they trust me and I trust them. And they're willing to go on a journey with me. And so to know I can take people on journeys and create experiences, that's really deeply fulfilling.

SM:

And what I will say on all the shows we've worked together, which is many now. . .

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

. . .you are the most commented on person I ever get on Twitter. . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . on Facebook.

JT:

Wow.

SM:

They all seriously, they always come to me and they say, please, could you help Jet do. . . . . And I say, well, I can't. . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . because it's Tournament of Champions. But I say, look at what he does. And so you should go, you know, that's what I always do. And it's not just because I know you, it's because I really, really love what you do at every stage.

JT:

I appreciate Simon.

SM:

I really do. So.

JT:

And you and our audience. Yeah, you know, I, it's overwhelming. It really is. And, and I feel a responsibility, by the way, I really feel a responsibility to, you know, project kindness. And you know, I'm not a drama guy. And I think people realize that.

SM:

You're definitely not. Jet, first of all, I've got some other fun questions. . .

JT:

Okay.

SM:

. . . that I hope you'll enjoy.

JT:

Yeah, of course.

SM:

But first of all, I just want to say a huge thank you because these. . . . You've given me plenty of inspiration because even I, you know, I didn't know this and I've never. . . . And that's why I wanted you on because apart, from anything else, this show is more about me trying to find out. . . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

Yeah, so I've done Military Rations or I've done, you know, Fish and Chips, or I've done all these things that I write essays on, or I've had Rocco DiSpirito explaining to me how Italian American came around.

JT:

Amazing.

SM:

And all these things. So we've done nearly 100 episodes. And when we came to, you know, obviously Thai food, you were the, the only person we were ever going to have in. So I want to say a huge thank you for that.

JT:

You're too kind. I say the same Simon. I mean, you're doing great work because you're creating timeless information and in such a fun way. You're such a scholar.

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

And we trust you and we want to travel the world with you. So it's a mutual thank you.

SM:

Well, this year we're off to the ‘Stans.

JT:

Oh wow. You're going to the ‘Stans. I can't wait to listen. Yeah.

SM:

Uzbekistan and yeah, we've got a lot of different places that we're going to, we're actually going to go, including Turkmenistan and it's gonna be a really fun time.

JT:

So cool, man.

SM:

Now, we'll get you to tell us about all your Instagram and things like that in a second. But while I hope these were really fun questions before everyone listening, you know, would like to ask you a few other questions. So before we go, if Jet Tila was a meal, what would it be?

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . .and it could be any meal, anywhere, but you have to tell us. One meal?

[Laughter]

JT:

Got it. It would be a, um, if I was a meal. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . . I would be. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . . um, Oh yeah. Um, Crispy Pork Belly. . .

SM:

Ooh.

JT:

. . . with, uh, with Chinese broccoli over rice with a fried egg, a runny egg.

SM:

That just sounds absolutely... Oh, well I know that, you know, my wife being Filipino, the crispy pork belly. . .

JT:

That's it, man.

SM:

. . . the bagnet or the... All that would be her favorite too. And mine in fact.

JT:

That would be me because it's Thai, it's Chinese. It's very decadent with a little bit of healthy.

SM:

And though it's Burmese, it's all across that area.

JT:

Yes, it really is.

SM:

Yeah. Okay. Now you're getting me really hungry.

JT:

I'm starving. Yeah.

SM:

Okay. If you could go to any meal during history or a meal at a particular point in history, what would it be?

JT:

Oh man.

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

In history, I would like to sit with my grandmother, my maternal grandmother as a child and her family around their table just to understand what she ate and how she grew up. That's, that's when I would like to go. So it would probably be 19, 18, probably the late 1800s.

SM:

Wow.

JT:

And then, and then somewhere in Hainan, China on that island.

SM:

Oh.

JT:

And wonder what it was like for her growing up and eating food, what that life experience was.

SM:

That's a fantastic one. I, yeah, would still love to sit. You know, I always used to stand with my grandmother, who's a Welsh baker.

JT:

Wow.

SM:

And she would show me how she would bake bread. And I was so in trance about it. I'd stand on a stool and I'd look at her.

JT:

Yeah.

SM:

And it was complete magic to me. It was complete magic.

JT:

Those are the strongest memories because. . .

SM:

Yeah. Oh.

JT:

. . . we were so vulnerable and open in those years and. . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

. . . we were surrounded by food.

SM:

Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. And this is the final one before we ask you to tell us everything about you. If you could choose any great invention in history, what would it be.

JT:

I've always wondered what happened, how they figured this leaf thing that became tea. I'm really curious what, if what, what herder had these goats eat this bush and then, uh, and then, you know, the, the, the, the, the goat started getting super hyper. And then, uh, I know that sounds so benign and boring. . .

SM:

No, it doesn't.

JT:

. . . but that I was wondering.

SM:

I'm a huge tea person, as you know.

JT:

Right. Right.

SM:

I never drink coffee. I'm actually allergic to it.

JT:

Oh.

SM:

But well, I had some of. . . my mother's not with us now, but I, one day in Spain, I had a thing of coffee.

JT:

Mm-hmm.

SM:

But she had it laced with, this was in Spain. . .

JT:

Oh no, laced.

SM:

. . . laced with Chinchon, which is a very powerful Spanish pastis. . .

JT:

Oh wow.

SM:

. . . and poured it in it and I drank it were three. . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . and I was and so from then on I've never enjoyed it.

JT:

Traumatized, traumatized.

SM:

But tea is. . . . I went to a tea plantation in Darjeeling and the tea, seeing the tea. . . . The only thing I will tell you about is at the top, they had the loose leaf tea, which was very good. . .

JT:

Right.

SM:

. . . as it went down this fermentation thing. And at the bottom, they had the. . . . They had the American iced tea, the American stuff. . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . that's just like dust. . .

JT:

Like dust, yeah.

SM:

. . . and they used to clean that up and put it in a bag and sell it to the Americans.

JT:

There you go.

SM:

The British was the second thing just before the loose.

JT:

Wow. It's such a global. . . globally consumed item that. . . .

SM:

Yeah.

JT:

And it started wars, and it's start, right?

SM:

Everything. Yeah.

JT:

Everything. So I'd like to see this or the inception of tea consumption.

SM:

Well, what I would recommend, there's a great book whose name I can't answer, but Robert Fortune was this English guy in the 1800s who used to go across to China, who was the only place that grew tea.

JT:

Wow.

SM:

No, India never sold tea at this point, but he had to go and the British were so obsessive about tea that he had to go in and he disguised himself as a Chinese worker. . .

JT:

[Laughter]

SM:

. . . in the 1800s and he went into China to these very posh tea gardens and he ended up, he had the bamboo pole across and he put plants in there and brought them back to Assam in India.

JT:

No way.

SM:

And they started planting them and that's how India got its first tea. And that now obviously it's huge and it's a. . . .

JT:

I’m all in. I'm gonna check that out. That is so cool.

SM:

So do go. . .

JT:

I will.

SM:

. . . and check it because that's a great thing. Anyway.

[Laughter]

You see I could keep talking about food.

JT:

No, yeah, both of us.

SM:

But finally. . .  Could you tell us you know your Instagram, TikTok, whatever, because they're, they're so fantastic to watch. They are.

JT:

Yeah, thank you.

SM:

They are. Uh, and I just what you know, they are and I just want to know you and Ali because she's fantastic too on these. How you bring it all together because you. . .

JT:

Yeah, you ever know anyone listening, please stay in touch with us and Instagram and TikTok, you know, just it's all Jet Tila. Just search Jet Tila, my name J E T T I L A and you know, you really get another sense of our, the other side of our life, which is our social media life. We do a lot of content. It's very family oriented. It's all food related. So TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, you know, all X. We're everywhere. Just check out Jet Tila and you know, become what I call Team Tila. You can very quickly become part of the team. . .

SM:

[Laughter]

JT:

. . . and stay involved in what we're doing.

SM:

Team Tila,

JT:

Team Tila all day.

SM:

We used to have one I think I made up, but mine was too kind of clunky. So I just said. . .

JT:

What's yours? What was yours?

SM:

Oh, I can't remember.  

JT:

[Laugher]

SM:

It was Majumdar Madness or something. I can't remember.

JT:

Yeah, I like that. That's a good one. Majumdar Madness all day, man.

SM:

But, but Majumdar Madness where everyone goes nuts.

[Laughter]

JT:

[Laughter]

I love it.

SM:

But I just want to say thank you again this was really just one of the best.

JT:

Thank you.

OUTRO MUSIC

Simon:

Make sure to check out the website associated with this podcast at www.EatMyGlobe.com where we will be posting the transcripts from each episode, along with all the references and resources we used putting the episodes together, in case you want to delve deeper into each subject. There is also a contact button, so please do let us know if there are any subjects that you would like us to cover.

And, if you like what you hear, please don’t forget to join us on Patreon, subscribe, recommend us to your family and friends and give us a good rating on your favorite podcast provider.

Thank you and goodbye from me, Simon Majumdar, and we’ll speak to you soon on the next episode of EAT MY GLOBE: Things You Didn’t Know You Didn’t Know About Food.

CREDITS

The EAT MY GLOBE Podcast is a production of “It’s Not Much But It’s Ours” and “Producer Girl Productions.”

[Ring sound]

We would also like to thank Sybil Villanueva for all of her help both with the editing of the transcripts and essential help with the research.